Feminism

can video games turn us into misogynists?

For most of my life I didn’t consider myself a “gamer,” mostly because I had an incredibly narrow understanding of what a gamer could be. I was usually more interested in books and film than I was in video games, so I didn’t think I was “allowed” to describe myself as a gamer. Over time I changed my mind.

That happened in graduate school, and the first time I self-identified as a gamer a bunch of boys tried to laugh me out of the room. Mockery, derision, dismissal … I was an English major, a book nerd– and they were being extremely honest when they said that I was “too pretty.”

For weeks I tried to establish my cred– that I’d grown up with the TurboGrafx-16, the Super Nintendo, Sega Genesis, N64, Gamecube, Playstation 2, and Wii. That I’d played Doom and Warcraft. I can still cycle through all the different responses you’d get by clicking on an orc grunt and the StarCraft Terran medic (“where does it hurt?” still makes me giggle). I still cry when I think about Kerrigan (and I played through that mission so many times before I figured out that it was rigged). My family hosted Unreal: Tournament LAN parties. I can hum the theme songs from Sonic the Hedgehog. Diddy Kong Racing and Star Wars Episode I: Racer are still my all-time favorite games, and I downloaded an N64 simulator just to play them. That guy who proposed to his girlfriend at a Con by cosplaying Link and Zelda and then saying “It’s dangerous to go alone, take this” while offering her a ring makes me sob like a baby.

In high school I played EverQuest, Anarchy Online, Star Wars Galaxies— I even played Lord of the Rings Online from beta and all the way through grad school. I love all of the Fable and Assasin’s Creed games and I’ve played through Portal a half-dozen times. Currently, I’m saving up money to get Bioshock Infinite.

It was extremely frustrating to have all of that dismissed like it didn’t matter. I was a girl, and that’s all they could see, so they did everything they could to ignore me. Had I played every single Halo? No, only 3? Not a real gamer. Had I ever played Call of Duty? No? Not a real gamer. It was endless. I eventually realized I didn’t have to prove myself to them and I walked away, but it still irks me at times that those dumbasses were so smug and arrogant and they still think that I couldn’t possibly be a gamer because I was a girl.

So, yeah: video games and sexism? In every single encounter I’ve had with “gamers,” they go hand-in-hand.

Which is why I’ve been paying some attention to #GamerGate. Anita Sarkeesian is one of my all-time favorite people and YouTubers, so she’s how I found out about it, and I’ve been keeping up with it since about early September. If you’re not familiar with it, this post is a good synopsis. I also really loved this video, which covers the base assumptions of #GamerGate.

There’s already posts and articles and forum threads and twitter conversations aplenty covering what’s wrong with this “movement for journalist integrity” (coughbullshitcough), but there’s one argument I’ve seen pop up quite a bit, and I want to address it: video games cannot make players be misogynists.

This is not an argument unique to #GamerGate– I’ve already heard it a number times, usually in response to the Feminist Frequency Tropes Vs. Women in Video Games series. The argument usually follows this pattern:

  1. Research shows that violent video games don’t increase aggression among players (which some research does support; but then, some research says no, it can make people more aggressive and hostile).
  2. Ergo, video games can’t make people be sexist, either.

I’m not a psychologist or a sociologist, but in a way that argument makes a certain sort of sense to me. I don’t think that video games can make a non-violent person go on a shooting spree at their high school. I’ve grown up around incredibly violent and graphic games, and I’ve enjoyed camping with a sniper rifle while picking other players off, delighting in “FIRST BLOOD” and “HEADSHOT” being shouted out of my speakers during an Unreal: Tournament deathmatch– but I have never once wanted to pick up a gun and shoot anyone, or even become a sniper. I’m not a violent person, and playing violent video games didn’t change that. That is also true for most of the people I know.

However, saying that video games can’t make people violent so they can’t make people sexist, either is a false equivalency for the simple reason that everyone is already sexist.

Video games that uncritically (key term) show sexism, misogyny, violence against women, rape, sexual assault, sexist slurs, domestic violence, casual sexism, sexist tropes/costumes all contribute to our cultural assumptions about gender and women. There isn’t a culture of “regular” people walking around cities robbing, looting, defacing, and killing indiscriminately like what the player does in the Grand Theft Auto series– however, there is a consistent problem of violence against sex workers, a problem that GTA engages in by allowing players to murder sex workers in order to retrieve their money.

Sexist video games capitalize on the already existing oppressions in society. The sexist tropes that appear in video games don’t show up in these narratives completely out of thin air– they are present in games because they are present in our culture, and every single time we encounter one of these tropes or patterns it can reinforce the patriarchal narratives our minds have been steeping in since birth.

Gamers aren’t being forced to become misogynists against their will by playing these games– these games are simply relying on shallow depictions of women, on clichéd storylines and tired plots, and a player who absorbs the gendered messages of these games without analyzing them is having his or her beliefs confirmed, not invented.

#GamerGate is such a perfect illustration of this, too. Without even realizing it, these gamers who are so worried about “journalistic integrity” have only even gone after women, none of whom were journalists. You’d think that if they cared about journalistic integrity they would have en masse attacked the journalist that Zoe Quinn supposedly dated in order to get positive reviews (which don’t exist, by the way), but they didn’t. This “movement” hasn’t turned any Gater into a misogynist– they all just already were.

Photo by Mack Male
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  • I’m not a gamer, so maybe I’m not the right audience for this post. Video games may be a strong influence, but I don’t think they ‘turn’ people into misogynists any more than they ‘made’ those two boys kill a bunch of people at Columbine. That sort of behavior is learned, and reinforced, in a multitude of ways. Maybe first and foremost, the way dad treats mom.

  • I believe that the media can influence people’s behavior. I also believe that video games can also influence behavior, but not in a significant way as to make anyone more “violent.” We are all responsible for making decisions about our behavior, so we should not avoid responsibility by blaming a video game for violent behavior.

  • Aibird

    I love this post. Thank you for writing it. I also love playing games and would consider myself a gamer. Made a post that consolidated links about gamergate, so I may have to add in your post here as well because it’s a great analysis.

    Also, to add to what you already said, it not only confirms the sexism that is all ingrained and socialized into us from a young age, but it also provides support for that sexism — it validates the sexism. And in turn, offers support for the continuation of invalidation of and shaming of victims of abuse, sexual harassment, and rape as well as women in general.

  • Melissa

    This made a lot of sense to me. Maybe an additional factor: I wonder if video games can accustom people to acting in virtual world to an extent that makes real-world consequences less real to them. That is, so far the harassment and threats against women have been mostly online (or offline threats but not acted upon because the event was canceled as in Utah), I think?? For a video game to “make” someone walk out and shoot someone with a gun, that person would have to make a radical shift between virtual/”real” action. But making online threats? It’s a seamless continuation of virtual actions (and in the virtual world many women are portrayed as objects), that doesn’t require face-to-face acknowledgement of a real woman. Like the high schoolers harassing each other to suicide on facebook and twitter….it seems to facilitate disconnecting from real human beings. The thing is, being a misogynist is a wider range of actions/lower bar than being a violent killer. You don’t have to actually get a gun. You can just tell a women you’re going to kill her, anonymously. And that’s still misogynist. So yeah, I think games could contribute to that.

    • I think it likely also plays a part that gameworlds almost entirely reinforce the idea that male is the default and female is a variation which needs to be justified.

      (I’d list specific examples, but I’ve got a headache and I doubt the statement was ambiguous anyway.)

  • What the research shows is that playing violent video games desensitize players to violence by rewarding them for killing off their opponents. In the game mentioned above where a player advances or recovers points by killing off prostitutes for example, the message is that these women are worthy of violence. No violent video game will not turn you into a mass murderer but that fact that entertaining ourselves by playing games where you simulate violence against women desensitizes the player to real life violence against women and that is not a positive outcome.

  • Brett

    I think video game culture can definitely make people into dangerous misogynists considering #GamerGate, even if the games themselves do nothing of the sort. There’s something particularly poisonous there, like part of the broader culture’s sexism got pulled off into a pocket and then enhanced with a gigantic sense of victimhood.

    I still cry when I think about Kerrigan (and I played through that mission so many times before I figured out that it was rigged).

    Poor Kerrigan. I liked her in both Starcraft and Brood War, and was so disappointed with some the plot choices they made for her in Starcraft 2.

  • I think there is a lot of sense in what you say here. Also, the brutality of the imagery intimidates women.

    Me, I fear a backlash from the wider culture that gives us the worst of both worlds: misogyny, and no permissible ways to talk about it.

  • Tom

    Let me start by saying you truly are a gamer – the “resume” checks out!
    I’m saddened by GamerGate in General – being a male, I suppose this event is forcing me to see the misogyny so pervasive in a community I’ve enjoyed. I always thought gamers were better than this.
    Then again, I always knew gamers to be quite insensitive…
    Either way, it would be sweet to run into you in a Starcraft game sometime. And I hope you find the story of Bioshock: Infinite as fascinating and well done as I did!

  • Samantha, I don’t know if you are offended by profanity, but if not, this post by Chris Kluwe will probably fill you with glee and make you laugh out loud about a hundred times. I’m not even a gamer, and it made my evening. Warning – the way that Kluwe curses is basically art.

    https://medium.com/the-cauldron/why-gamergaters-piss-me-the-f-off-a7e4c7f6d8a6

  • I appreciate your thoughts on this… I’ve actually been thinking a lot about this today.
    I don’t really “get” these gamergate people.. it kind of just boggles my mind how they jumped from being upset about the Zoey Quinn situation into threatening women and blowing it all out of proportion. I guess I just chalk it up to internet trolling/mob mentality. 4chan’s already over it, apparently.. the rest of the internet just needs to chill out… I mean, if she actually did sleep with those people and steal ideas to get ahead, then that’s pretty horrible, but that kind of thing maybe warrants some fraud charges not threats to her personal safety on the basis of her gender.
    on a side note, I wasn’t ever a gamer as a child, so I didn’t experience that specific type of dismissal.. But being a major scifi/fantasy geek kind of excluded me from the boys and the girls for most of that time. Girls werent into it unless it was unicorns, and the boys all just thought i was weird.

    • I’ve always been a huge Sci-Fi/fantasy geek, and that nerd culture can be just as awful to women. I feel ya.

  • I’m certain that there is a correlation between sexist, misogynist assholes and gaming, but I’m not so certain that the sexism and misogyny is caused by the gaming. However, I’m pretty hesitant to attribute causation to something anyways, so I might be biased, and I’m not part of the community the way you are, so I am definitely less informed.

    I think that there are different types of people who gravitate towards gaming. There are people like my husband and my best friend who game because they enjoy challenging themselves and interacting with their friends using that medium. They’re honorable, respectful men who giggle as they beat down male and female raiders in Fallout with a pipe, but that violence is not echoed by their words or actions in the real world.

    Then there are the men who game out a sense of competitiveness and desire to conquer and be superior. These are the ones who have to one-up every accomplishment you have and scream obscenities at you if you dare best them with a head shot. Gaming provides access to like-minded people for them to form a community with and perpetuate the misogyny towards which they are already inclined.

    I just think that if it was the gaming that caused the misogyny, the results would be more consistent, but I know plenty of gamers who are good, decent human beings, and I know plenty of gamers who are nasty spiteful pieces of trash.

  • The Gamergate thing just made me SAD. Personally, my theory is that it was the perfect storm of both the quasi-anonymity of the internet and the fact that, no matter how marketable they prove to be, a lot of self-identified gamers are socially awkward, marginalized people, and so while the community attracts a lot of nice people looking for friends, it’s also a place where some very ugly people, including whoever threatened Anita, can find a vulnerable group of people to burrow into. There’s an article on Geek Social Fallacies that deals well with explaining this.

    I’m fairly casual about video games myself (mostly Mario Party, Assassin’s Creed, and Animal Crossing), but as a sci-fi/fantasy enthusiast (I went to NYCC last year, in a Margery Tyrell costume), I consider myself part of that scene, and it breaks my heart when things get like this.

  • Tim

    You’re absolutely a gamer. Your resume checks out.

    I thought the Chris Kluwe article was hilarious. I don’t think gaming is misogynist, in itself. I think in decades past, male gamers outnumbered female gamers by a good margin inside that fairly small subculture of geeks, and so the subculture was dominated by male assumptions. As gaming has become mainstream, many more people have joined the party, including a lot women, and that’s causing enormous change both in challenging male assumptions and in many other ways as well. Change and loss of a sense of control is scary. But hasn’t the mainstreaming of gaming has been a net good in many ways? More people playing means more developers, more hours of code, better art, better systems. And you’d think guys would be happy to be able to share something they enjoy with a woman.

    I saw this same thing of a male dominated sub-culture making male assumptions when I was in graduate school for engineering. Women were less than ten percent in most of my classes, and if any of the female engineeers had the misfortune of being more than average attractive, you could almost see the guys in the class looking at each other like, “Is she in the wrong room?” It was surprising to see a woman in that setting, but for me, it was always a pleasant surprise.

    Sci-fi and fantasy used to be a small subculture. Well, it still is. But people don’t realize that because SF and fantasy movies are pretty mainstream, which is just not the same thing.

  • KP

    I always find it amusing when I arguments about how this or that medium is having a huge effect on society in particularly negative ways are almost completely historically blind. Yes, video games are having some sort of effect, but so did what came before: television, comic books, radio, vaudeville, bawdy novels, the Shakespearean stage, roaming minstrels, Socrates asking all those damned questions, etc. It’s completely fair to analyze a form* and critique it for participating in a broader cultural problem like misogyny (as long as you don’t reduce the form to simply a carrier of misogyny instead of the robust and varied communication format that it is), but it always seems like a stretch to make claims that it produces those cultural problems, especially if you don’t pay attention to what was involved in that same kind of cultural production before video games filled that cultural space.
    Also, it’s cool to hear that you played Lord of the Rings Online. I’ve been on LOTRO on and off for the past three years; level cap is now 100, and the terrain has just advanced past Rohan to the Paths of the Dead and the Corsair-dominated southern tip of Gondor. I’m so happy that I’ve found a kinship that is full of generally tame people who mostly act like responsible adults. Well, unless they’re defending the Prancing Pony from attacks by Sharkey’s men.
    *Though it seems odd to me to think of “games” as a single cultural space in a way that is meaningful since the field is so varied. And while, as Samantha notes, hardcore gamers like to compete by cordoning off a specific realm as the space that belongs to “true gamers” (kind of like Real True Christians**), gaming broadly defined can include not just the variety of first person shooters and MMORPGs but also Angry Birds and Farmville. My mom seems very non-gamerish to everyone she meets, but she still regularly plays Dr. Mario on her still-working original Nintendo console (in addition to recent additions of iPad puzzle games); I’d argue that there actually is a sense in which she should count as a “gamer.”
    **The gatekeepers of which also tend to be misogynist, power-hungry assholes, as documented, for example, in many places on this blog.

  • My father was in the marines during Korea. He took a class of statistics on the outcome of nuclear and biological warfare. For weeks he went over the millions of people dead from each scenario, then a news report came on that 12 people died in a pileup on the freeway. His first impulse was to dismiss this as nothing for 12 was insignificant to the numbers running through his head until it hit him, that these were real life, flesh and blood people not probable statistics. I give this as an example that there are lots of ways to distort reality. Gaming, TV, movies, plays, novels all send us into alternative realities and sometimes we blur the lines. Growing up I was pissed my parents weren’t as perfect as the ones in Father Knows Best or My Three Sons.
    I left video games at Yars Revenge and River Raid on Atari. I do have a Wii for playing tennis and bowling. I watched my grandson play a game on Wii when he was around 5 that had him throwing rocks at a dopedy looking kid and getting points for knocking him off a wall. I fussed at my son for having a game glorifying bullying. My teacher mode coming into play.

  • My husband is a gamer–he watches Anita Sarkeesian’s videos and mostly agrees with her (he’s said that he does think a few of the games she recommends are a little too indie for him, even though he’s pretty enthusiastic about most indie games). He was ranting about what happened recently and how the guy who threatened her should be thrown in jail and how screwed up US laws are. We discuss feminism, sexism, and video games a lot. He says he can kind of see it from the perspective of the guys who freak out about Sarkeesian’s work–he says to an extent it’s the “she wants to take all our fun toys away” reaction and that they’re missing the point that she wants to make games better, not worse. They’re reacting to a perceived loss of power, and no one likes losing that. And yes, they’re sexist and they don’t want to change or admit that they’re wrong. Video games are enforcing ideas that are already present, and changing the industry, particularly with more mainstream games, is slow to happen.

  • Liralen

    My take on this issue is that it’s the result of cultural changes within the gaming industry.

    Some gaming background for non-gamers: There are some players, like me, who detest Player vs. Player (PvP) games. I only play Player vs. Environment (PvE) games, preferably cooperatively with other players. At the opposite end of the spectrum are players who enjoy causing grief. They enjoy tears (aka QQ), so you learn early on never to let them see you cry (i.e, whining about it in public). It just gives them pleasure. In the early days of online gaming, options were sometimes limited for PvE players, so we often found ourselves in PvP games, which allowed plenty of opportunities for griefer types to cause grief.

    Today, there is now a plethora of games for us PvE’ers where we don’t have to tolerate griefers. There are still games where griefers can cause grief, but you aren’t going to find people like me playing them. You will only find other griefers or even worse for them, people who enjoy griefing the griefers. Developers have also gotten smarter over the years, and no longer make it easy for griefers to gank the defenseless, like those whose characters appear in the world, but from the player’s perspective, their computer is still loading the game and the player has no means to fight back.

    So all of the griefers’ easy pickings are gone and not only that – developers now realize that middle-aged women like me not only play games, but we buy them for other people. We also tend to have deeper pockets than yesteryears’ stereotypical gamer image of a teenage boy. My husband and I have bought 9 copies of Minecraft for friends and family, and who knows how many I’ve influenced by my praise of the game to buy it for themselves. At least 5.

    That’s what Gamersgate is about. Game developers no longer exclusively develop games for immature males. Of course, games will still be developed for them. Obviously, the Gamersgate misogynists aren’t the sharpest tools in the shed for thinking that throwing a hissy fit would garner any sympathy for their cause, but that’s just one symptom of their problem (entitlement). As Fred Clark and others have pointed out, the only thing they have achieved is that they have proven our point about misogyny and gender discrimination in the gaming industry. Anita Sarkeesian and others just handed them some rope, and their stupidity in falling for it is almost embarrasing to watch.

  • Crazylikeafox

    I’m not a fan of Sarkeesian. I checked out her YouTube channel once, and noticed some of the examples she used that I was familiar with didn’t actually fit the trope she was talking about. That said, she doesn’t deserve threats for having an opinion, even if you don’t agree with said opinion. Debate with her if you must. Ignore her if you need to, but threatening her is just plain wrong.

  • ObjectiveReality

    The other point that can be raised about the comparison between sexism and violence in video games is that violence is active – it’s something you physically do that is largely frowned on by society at large. That means that even if video games encourage you to be more violent or to become more accepting of violence, the bar for most people to start murdering people is still fairly high.

    Sexism, on the other hand, is a passive part of the way you view the world – you don’t need to go out and actively sexism at people.

    This youtuber: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGMegrt_97F75N-iUgyp0Tg has some good critical-thinking responses to a lot of this stuff.

    • Tim

      I agree with you sexism and violence are two different things. I also think there’s a connection between them.

      A lot of the mechanism that socializes most of us against violence occurs pre-video-game-playing age. A lot of it, in fact, is pre-verbal. In the same way that puppies and kittens crawl all over each other and their mom, little humans engage in this type of physical play with their parents, and learn, through the interaction, that sticking fingers in dad or mom’s eye, biting, smacking mom or dad in the head with a wooden block, etc., hurts, and isn’t tolerated. This type of play begins to develop and define nascent empathy. There are neurological outliers, and there are also cases where family dynamics prevent or distort this kind of play, but, if all goes well, a typical human will grow to be fairly empathetic and will cringe a bit at even the thought of inflicting gross physical injury on another human. (By the same token, we learn from our early play that people aren’t super fragile – giving someone a hug, a high five, or a punch in the arm isn’t going to cause any permanent injury.) Video games with their violent images come along too late in the process to easily overcome the earlier programming. If you could punch someone out just by pointing a game controler at them and mashing buttons, maybe there would be more video-game-caused violence. But, then again, if you knew they could cause you serious pain by doing the same thing, the inclination for risk avoidance might keep that sort of violence down.

      Sexism, as you say, is a different category than physical violence. Violence is an action. But actions are generally preceded by clusters of thought. And sexism can be a cause of a group of thoughts that precede violence by dehumanizing the “other” or by accepting gender stereotypes that certain types of violence against certain genders are ok. I think Samantha’s point above is well-taken that video game play (of games with particular gendered messages) can reinforce sexist or misogynist ideas. And those ideas can be dangerous.

  • thecarolineentity

    I was wondering if you’d write about this! I enjoyed the post and while I hate some of the things “Gamergate” is bringing to light, I’m glad that it’s finally being talked about.
    As a gamer myself, I just wanted to add that although video games can desensitize you to violence on the one hand, it’s also amazing how much empathy they can make you feel! (An example fellow gamers might remember: I can’t bear not to prevent Lucca’s mom’s accident in Chrono Trigger, replaying the long scene as many times as it takes to prevent the accident. And that is a particularly long and stressful scene to replay. Not to mention the countless times I’ve had to reload my saves in Dragon Age because of the way my choices in the dialog affected some NPCs…)
    Like any media/art form, there’s a huge variety in games and the way that people play them, and even each playthrough can be much different. That’s also a reason why I appreciate Sarkeesian’s work, because I had never thought of playing in some of the awfully misogynistic ways she showed.

  • Aw man. The one where Kerrigan has to hold off the Protoss and then the zerg eat her?That one… took me a while to let go of.

  • Florian

    Hey Samantha! (and everyone else) 🙂

    I’m a guy and a gamer, and after all these days of GamerGame hysteria I still think we’re barking up the wrong tree here. Let me explain.

    When I told my girlfriend about GG (she’s been a huge gamer for all her life, too) her reaction was: “Are you kidding me? When people realize I’m a girl on World of Warcraft they treat me like a Queen. A goddess. They offer their help, ask if they can give items to me and treat me with the utmost respect.”

    Now, that more or less sums up my experiences in different multiplayer games, too. I have never in my life witnessed anyone treat a girl or woman with anything but respect (and we’re talking raids here with 20-40 people). Why? Maybe because girls are rare in computer games. Maybe because ppl hope to get laid.

    So maybe Europeans are different from people in the states.
    Maybe there is more sexism directed at women where you live and play.

    Or maybe what Sarkeesian experienced has nothing to do with games but crazy 4Chan trolls. They would do anything for some attention. Sexism, racism, antisemite, whatever it takes.

    My 2c.

    • I’ve played MMOs for years and years, and I get what you’re girlfriend is saying. However, there’s a problem even with that reaction. It’s called benevolent sexism, and even though it doesn’t feel as immediately threatening as “I’m going to fuck you up the ass and cum on your face,” it’s still a part of the patriarchal system that controls women; it just controls us by putting us on a pedestal.

      However, I’ve also played a lot of FPS games, and the reaction there is the complete and polar opposite. I always pick a gender-neutral name and never, ever use headsets because the second they find out I’m a woman it’s all over and they go out of their way to make my life a living hell. I’ve had the same experience in MMOs, too. So much sexual harassment and people using disgusting emotes at me and propositioning me and it’s all just gross.

      • I’ve had the same experience in MMOs, too. So much sexual harassment and people using disgusting emotes at me and propositioning me and it’s all just gross.

        Me too. (I’m a man in real life, but the reaction I get when I play a female character in MMORPGs is quite…different from the one I get when I play a male character.)

        I remember, in reference to tabletop roleplaying, a female acquaintance of mine whose first Dungeons and Dragons group was all male but her. They weren’t unfriendly at all; it was immediately obvious that they thought it was beyond awesome to have a girl playing with them. It was also immediately obvious that they had no idea how to relate to her; driving her out of the group was far from their intention, but they managed it quite quickly anyway.

  • Florian

    Of course you get different reactions playing male / female characters. We’re human. We react differently to male / female / beautiful / ugly / old / young / black / white / asian people. It’s part of our culturalization, education and sexual preferences.

    Plus it works both ways, of course. Women act differently if a man is present. Put some school girls in a room and watch them interact. Then, send in a boy of the same age.

    So: we agree on the fact that trolls on the internet are a problem. But narrowing it down to sexism or games would be a big mistake in my experience.

    @beroli7
    You’re blaming a group of D&D nerds for not knowing how to behave around girls? Really?

    • D&D nerds, crazy 4chan trolls…I see that you’re willing to define as many Don’t-Count groups as necessary to establish that, no matter what any woman’s experience is, it doesn’t actually mean sexism is a huge problem. And, unfortunately, I doubt you will ever understand how badly you undermine your own case just by actually thinking you can make it.

    • I find it disturbing that you think the expectation of “you all are adults and are capable of treating another human being like a person and with respect” is too much to ask of anyone. Why the hating on nerds? I’ve been a nerd/geek all of my life and what I’ve found is that there’s pretty much the same exact number of sexist douchebag nerds as there are sexist douchebag jocks or sexist douchebag anythings.

  • Florian

    @Beroli
    The only crime those nerds commited is not being womanizers. And no, that doesn’t even remotely have anything to do with sexism on any plane of reality. Unless you missed to tell the part where they groped or raped her. Didn’t happen? Well, where’s your case then?

    @Samantha
    I did not say “you all are adults and are capable of treating another human being like a person and with respect” was “too much to ask of”. Where did you get that from? Or are you talking to someone else…?

    • Well, where’s your case then?

      Plainly stated, and I will not indulge your disingenuousness.

      • Florian

        No, share your reasoning with me please. Where’s the crime?